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Sadly....it won't start

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Sadly....it won't start
« on: November 09, 2017, 06:17:45 AM »
 

Mark c

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Ok, so i have left my bike sitting over the winter. Did a bit of maintenance before starting it, oil, battery and fluids etc. Went for a short ride, just a 10-15km or so, came home with no dramas.
I went to start it today, and no love for me.

It doesn't crank at all. but the starter relay fires. there's 12.7v in the battery and around 11 under load. All electrics look okay, lights, dash etc, all good. however for some reason gear selection is completely stuffed. I can find first, then back to neutral, then second, no further change up, then back to neutral, and no first.
Rocking the bike in gear loosens the gear selection and first is okay, then upwards selection is out of whack.

Has anyone else ever heard of anything like this?

I did notice last season when riding i missed a gear change 5-6, which i thought was odd at the time, as it has never missed a beat before this, but only happened once and seemed okay from then on.

Kinda hoping this is not transmission, as I am no mechanic, and wifey doesn't see the need for a workshop bill....I do have a donor bike, so have changed out the starter relay, no luck though.

Starter motor??????

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, i mean the weather is just starting to come right, and i don't want to miss out this year..

Cheers
 

Re: Sadly....it won't start
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 18:14:41 PM »
 

robvangulik

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If it doesn't crank, and the battery is good, the first suspect is indeed the startermotor, which is easy serviceable, be it a bit hard to reach.
With the right sidrpanel removed it should (just) be possible to loosen the two bolts and the cable from the starter and wiggle it out from under the carbs. Splitting the starter is done by removing the two long thin bolts on the outside and carefully pulling the housing apart, paying attention how things are fitting together for later assembly. taking into acount the age there will be a fair amount of carbon  from the brushes in the motor, a bit of compressed air, or even a soft brush will deal with that. do try the startermotor while still off the bike, if acting better assembly is thje reverse of disassembly gribbin12
If it cranks but doesn't start, the best thing to start with is changing the sparkplugs, good chance they're wet and won't spark. I assume you checked the most obvious things like battery, fuel and air supply already.
 

Re: Sadly....it won't start
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 21:39:49 PM »
 

Mark c

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thanks rob,

Yeah I tried the basic stuff first. Last night I tried replacing the starter motor with the one from my donor bike. No luck, same result. You're right, it was a tricky job to reach the bolt on the left, but determination always wins.

The starter relay just chatters and no sign of the engine even turning.

I'm starting to think the engine has seized, but cant understand why it would.

I can't even budge the rear wheel with the bike in gear. which I would have thought would have been possible, although I never tried this when it was running fine.

Not sure what to try next....

 

Re: Sadly....it won't start
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 02:26:20 AM »
 

robvangulik

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Doesn't sound good, could indeed be transmission related....
Start with taking of the cover over the front sprocket, and the front sprocket itself. Than you can take off the cover over the gear selector/shift mechanism, there is a chance a  spring is broken or a small part of the selector gear has worn/shifted etc.
Did you download the workshop manual/parts manual from this site?
It is all in japanese, but the pictures are a great help and language unsensitive gribbin12
A workshopmanual for a cbr1000f can also be of help, those are plentiful obtainable in any language, and the shift parts for instance work the same, even if they may be a little different in dimension....
 

Re: Sadly....it won't start
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 02:41:51 AM »
 

robvangulik

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BTW, did you ever try to contact our member RuaphuNZ (Andy Wilson)?
As the nickname implies he's also situated in NZ, and although he rides another brand bike nowadays he will still be quite familiar with the innards of your bike.
If you want it, I think I still have his email address somewhere, he is a lot closer to you than I here in Holland.....
 

Re: Sadly....it won't start
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2017, 06:50:49 AM »
 

xpd153

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I don't know your experience level.
However, even weak battery can display 12.x V display, it is well known.
Fortunately RC27 has 12V battery which is also used at virtually all modern passenger car.
So please try to connect with you car's battery.

 If gear is neutral , no battery problem, no starter problem, no starter clutch problem, still can not crank then it is likely engine problem. But don't put down starter button too long.

no battery problem: you can prove it with your healthy car battery
no starter and relay problem: you can run it before mounting with MC
no starter clutch problem: you can hear it. If it happen, you should hear very specific sound. it does not engage.






 

Re: Sadly....it won't start
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2017, 23:23:02 PM »
 

Mark c

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Thanks guys for your help.

I feel like a real rookie......I tried jump-starting the bike, and yep, it fired up immediately... :banana:..

Oddly, I thought I had tested everything as well as I could to prove the battery was okay. Voltage was sitting at 13.7, 12.5 under load. The starter motor worked fine out of the bike, and with the apparent lock up of the drive train, I got sidetracked chasing a fault that wasn't there.

I pulled the battery out of the bike, and found it was completely dry, no electrolyte at all. ROOKIE......

New battery and we are back in business...

Thanks again for all the advice.


 

Re: Sadly....it won't start
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2017, 23:24:57 PM »
 

robvangulik

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Like written before, always start with the simple things first  gasdrop
If only all faults were that easy to solve, have fun, your season is about to start, winter is rolling in over here.....
 

Re: Sadly....it won't start
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2018, 10:59:50 AM »
 

Golem

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Don't know how you did your first ride without a battery to be honest :)
Veho ergo sum
 

Re: Sadly....it won't start
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2018, 08:13:28 AM »
 

Mark c

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To be honest. It still holds charge, even with almost 0 battery fluid in it. It's the weirdest thing I have seen in a long while.

Looks like regulator/ rectifier as i get 15.2V at 3000rpm.

then again, i changed the r/r and still had the same, could possibly be alternator wiring. I'm looking at changing that next......

nothing like a challenge.

pity tho, i had a rally to go to this weekend, 450km round trip. I'm not overly keen on getting that far from home only to find it wont start for the ride home.


the battle continues.
 
 

Re: Sadly....it won't start
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2018, 12:41:51 PM »
 

robvangulik

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Be sure to check all those multi-pin connectors for corrosion, when there is (too much) resistance in the wiring from alternator to battery the r/r tries to compensate the (alledgedly low) charge rate and pumps the voltage higher than is actually necessary, and cooks the battery dry.
A little over 15 volt won"t really hurt the battery, but you'll have to keep an eye on the elctrolyte level, and probably have to top it up with demineralised water once in a while.
I hope it works out, you should be riding and having fun. Over here it is snowing, so not much riding.....
 

Re: Sadly....it won't start
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2018, 20:43:46 PM »
 

Mark c

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thanks for the info, another thing I'll check out....

you're right, i should be riding, we are in the middle of the hottest summer on record, (nice work Global warming) and I'll I see on the road is smiling bikers.
 

Re: Sadly....it won't start
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2018, 02:18:19 AM »
 

robvangulik

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Good excuse to make an extensive test ride this weekend  winky5a